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Ramona Africa Called Out On MOVE's Homophobia
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from Portland Indy Media/Re-Posted By Anti-MOVE Blog | 05.16.2008
An attendee at a MOVE program did the un-thinkable and actually asked a question about MOVE's attitude towards gays and found out the truth (Recently, I posted an article at the Portland IMC that was censored. My "thought crime" consisted of imploring people to ask MOVE member, Ramona Africa, about MOVE's position on amongst other things, homoexuality. One attendee did just that and what follows is their report on the event.) Good And Bad At Ramona Africa Lecture Just got back from the Ramona Africa and Craig Rosebraugh lecture. It was really quite powerful in a lot of ways, but disappointing in others. I went to the event hoping to hear more about the MOVE organization, their repression, and what they had learned from their experience. I was also interested in Craig's take on the Green Scare and diversity of tactics, though I've heard him speak before. When Craig spoke, he had a lot to say regarding the government reprisals and toward acceptance of a diversity of tactics. I agreed with a lot of what he said, not everything, though I felt it was very strongly preaching to the choir. He didn't need to spend so long defending the ALF/ELF when most everyone in the room (I think) supports the ALF/ELF. I also disagreed when he said if you're not being persecuted for what you're doing it's not effective. Education can be a great tool that can be very effective that often slips below the radar of the system. Likewise, Craig himself was persecuted quite strongly though not preforming an ALF/ELF action himself. Then Ramona spoke. She gave a very powerful speech as well... relied a little heavily on truisms and maxims of empowerment... but overall was good. She spoke only briefly on the events surrounding her imprisonment and the bombing of her house. Then it was question time. Question time didn't go so well. Someone heckled with their question from the back, implying that the MOVE house had brought upon themselves the bombing that killed the children of their house. He seemed to claim they brought it on themselves by having loudspeakers at their house. The question after that I asked. I needed to get confirmation one way or the other about MOVE's ideological connection to homophobia. People mention it whenever MOVE is mentioned, but then those people get called COINTELPRO, much to my chagrin. I asked it not to heckle like the person before me, but to get an answer. The answer didn't surprise me. A lot of hemming and hawing and excuse-making all failed to cover up the cold bare truth. MOVE is anti-gay. They don't think it's natural, they don't think it's right, they simply "don't believe in it" (whatever that means). A lot of the people on or near the stage (not craig... I'm curious where he stands). So I thought here would be a good place to cut through that fucking bullshit and talk about the facts of homophobia and the mental imperialism a lot of so-called radicals still walk around with. She said that she couldn't be called homophobic, because she works with gay people, and even once stayed with a gay person when travelling: This hardly has to be debunked, but to be safe let's do it anyway. Just because you work with someone, know someone, talk to someone doesn't mean you don't bear prejudice against that people. It rings sadly familiar of family-friends from my childhood who would make racist jokes and comments but try to avoid accountability by saying "I have plenty of black friends" or talking about a time they had polite conversation or even dinner with a black person. Ramona in the same way was trying to obscure the issue. She called homosexuality a choice, even likening it to members of Islam choosing not to eat pork: On this I take strong offense, first that the argument is even raised, and second that a person who isn't queer wants to tell queer people where their desires came from. See, I'm making an exception here, but generally I don't even like to get into this debate whatsoever, because of the subtle undertones. The unstated assumption is that if you can prove that homosexuality is a choice, then it's OK to persecute them. Well, it's not. Under the harm principle, you have no excuse for persecuting someone for a choice that doesn't affect you. Choice hardly plays into it. It's a choice to blow your nose, for instance, but would I have any ethical credence in considering them lesser or unnatural? Absolutely not. It's an absurd thought but it's the same in terms of impact on the judging 'other'. It has nothing to do with her, and shouldn't be any of her concern. It's just a result of religious conditioning... brainwashing even, that people have a hard time getting past in order to accept queer people into their community. It just really disappoints me to think that there are these people who have gotten past so much internalized racism, sexism, classism, ageism, ableism and so on but still hold on to that last one. She said she isn't homophobic because she doesn't believe in queer-bashing, and if people are flyering and see a gay person, they would flyer him/her as with any other: And that's just ridiculous. Not every form of patriarchy looks like a battered wife and not every form of homophobia looks like a queer-bashing. When we queer-bash with our words, we put a small mark on the map that becomes our entire culture. A culture which ultimately doesn't do enough to stop the violent queer-bashing. A culture that accepts it passively and ultimately finds it funny, or cool, or masculine, or whatever. Anyway, I thought I should put that out there. I don't think I would give money to MOVE again. While I absolutely support prison abolition, I know there are prisoners, particularly political prisoners who would support my right to exist... but ultimately it's your call to make and I'm not going to hate on anyone who does. Also, will someone please tell me Mumia (who is an honorary 9th member of MOVE) isn't homophobic? I think I remember reading something of his that was rad and pro-gay, but this worries me. Against Capitalism, Racism, Sexism, Homophobia, Ageism, Ableism, Sizeism, Transphobia, and others. Ultimately... against pathetic excuses.
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Comentarios
responses to portland imc post
Submitted by Free Mumia and the MOVE 9 (no verificado) on Vie, 05/16/2008 - 2:33amThese are comment responses to that post at the portland imc
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From Queer MOVE/Mumia supporter---
I think that’s cool that you confronted Ramona about that, because MOVE should be challenged on that, and ultimately I think it was a disappointing response that she gave.
That said, I think to say that Ramona “does not recognize your right to exist” is very exaggerated and is not an accurate portrayal of what you yourself described. What she said seemed more like “you live your way and I’ll live my way.” MOVE does not recruit people and is not telling other people how to live their lives (like most Christians in the US and other religions around the world often do).
Certainly it is up to you about who you choose to give your money to. However, it is important to note that MOVE’s positions on GLBT issues is obviously not the reason that the govt has brutally repressed the groups. They repressed them because they resisted state power and “met fist with fist” when racist cops attacked them….
Re Mumia, in the early 90s, he initially cited John Africa, and argued that being queer was “unnatural,” but when folks challenged him on it, he officially said he was wrong about that and changed his position. Since, he has written several essays where he explicitly states that glbt/queers are oppressed just like Blacks and other oppressed groups… I respect Mumia for changing his mind and admitting he was wrong (perhaps in the future MOVE will also change their mind), because it takes a strong person to
This could also be the BPP influence, since Huey Newton was a major supporter of the GLBT community---much more progressive than most of the white left at the time, when he made his famous 1970 statement that queers (and women) were and oppressed group just like Blacks, and that they should be treated with the utmost respect, and that the BPP should work together with them in revolutionary coalition.
Don't get stuck 15.May.2008 00:01
celticfire link
I unite with your assesment. I think there should be criticisms made of MOVE's position on homosexuality, because its really just recycled patriarchy. However, Ramona's point about unity and Craig's point about oppressors using division against us, is really valid. MOVE's view of homosexuality sucks - for sure - but lets also focus on all the positive, revolutionary things as well.
Call out MOVE's homophobia - go for it- but also recognize there revolutionary work as well. That's how we will construct a powerful movement, not by all or nothing support of every left group, but of criticism and self-criticism.
http://celticfire84.justfree.com
You are intitled to your opinion same as her. 15.May.2008 00:09
Another (A) link
I think that free will means that all our concious actions are a choice. In my oppion living a gay lifestyle, is
a choice. A fine choice as far as I'm concerned. I may disagree with Ramona and the Move organization about this but hell I don't have to join thier group, and neither do you. I think you're using the term "imperialism" loosely, very loosely. I also think that to say because move members choose not to be gay they are "bashing" gay people is silly.
Who did Ramona attack? It seems to me that you sought out a tenant of thier ideology that they're hesitant to share if anything. Why? In order to shame her? Because that's how this seems to me.
If I act in a manner that is widely considered homosexual because it feels good, and because I relish an emotional intimacy that is different from my eintimacy with women is that wrong? Well maybee she thinks so. But honestly as long as she's not pushing that dogma on me I am content to let her govern and think for herself, as I would do the same. If you only respect people that are "born queer" that in my opinion, is your problem. I would rather not hear about it. Most folks like you and I are a mixed bag. The woman is a leader in her community, widely respected for generations of positive community struggle. You sought out the one aspect in which your opinnions diverge and used it to publicly humiliate her. Did she go out seeking to publicly humiliate or bash queers? No. Did she travel all the way across the country to our backwards white community to attack or slander you? No.
Then to go on the internet and brag about it?
Cock a doodle doo!
..aslo 15.May.2008 00:09
celticfire link
Check out this link regarding Mumia & homosexuality: www.mumia.de
http://celticfire84.justfree.com
Inconsistencies... 15.May.2008 09:39
(A)^3 link
Being gay isn't a lifestyle. Who would choose to exist in a way that so many people find so despicable that they could kill you over it? Who would choose to be alienated from their friends, family, community, and society at large over a personal 'lifestyle choice' if they didn't have to?
If you believe that sexuality is a choice then you are encouraging people to repress their own sexuality. You are encouraging them not to express a part of their own being. There are people who aren't comfortable with their sexuality, mostly because of people like you, and when you blame them for something that they have no choice over, you are stating that they should have control over it. A lot of them wish that they did. When people find that they don't they will wonder if it's a personal failing. We have many people in our society who try to pretend that they aren't gay, and look how far it gets them. In relationships with people who they aren't attracted to, or unable to be in a relationship at all. Homophobic politicians are found paying other men for sex, and who can say that's a surprise?
Any person, no matter how heroic and generous in other respects, should be criticized if they choose to be intolerant towards a group of people based on such trivial differences. If you truly believe that homosexuality is a lifestyle, then it would be akin to living a black lifestyle or a poor lifestyle, would it not? One that you do not choose, yet you are expected to integrate yourself into dominant culture anyway, if you want any widespread acceptance. Gays must act like they're hetero, blacks must act like they're white, and the poor must act like they're middle class. If I chose not to allow someone into my inner circle only because they acted unacceptably black, or unacceptably poor, then I would hope I would be criticized. To exclude someone from your activist group, to say that you do not want their help because of an irrelevant part of who they are, is incredibly hurtful.
Ramona said that we should trust ourselves to know what's wrong. A lot of people were obviously upset about MOVE's position on homosexuality last night. Another(A), if you were there last night, it would have been obvious to you that (A) was not bringing up the topic to humiliate Ramona or anyone else. He merely wanted to hear from her own mouth how she felt about homosexuals. I do not see what is harmful about that, however, I do see every day what is harmful about not questioning authority figures, and not questioning the inconsistencies in peoples' morals and ethics.
the Black Branch Davidians 15.May.2008 10:04
rAT link
If you want to be the Black Koresh, be prepared for the consequences. The NWO loves a good shoot-out.
Don't support homophobes 15.May.2008 10:05
queer and radical link
Supporting MOVE when we know they are openly anti-queer is completely backward and counter-revolutionary. No other form of hatred would be tolerated by the left, if there was a right on anti sexist groups who was racist, they would (and should) be shunned. If there was an anti-racist group who was openly sexist, they too would be ignored by the radical left. Why on earth then, do us queers have to see our straight 'comrades' coming to the defense of homophobes? When it comes to revolutionary politics, it is all or nothing--you are either actively working against ALL oppression, or you are an oppressor. Period.
Divisive Games and The False Pursuit of Purity 15.May.2008 11:08
Also Queer & Radical link
It is not all or nothing period. I support people who are fighting back against their oppressors, period. Many Palestinians are homophobic and sexist but I still support their right to fight back against oppression. Same with Oaxaca. It's illegal to be gay in Iran and there are many sexist laws, but I support Iran's right to fight back if attacked by the United States. I may disagree with Ramona on whether my sexuality is a choice or not but I will support her struggle against oppression and will give money to help her family get out of prison. Just as I would hope that many organizations could look past my sexuality and help me if I was in immediate need because of oppression. I don't agree on everything with everybody but I can recognize when it's important to have unity. The more movements we are instrumental in helping with, the more communities that we are visible in, the more minds will be changed about us. Otherwise you just paint yourself into a lonely, delusionally perfect corner, vulnerable to attack from the real enemies. Nobody looks perfect under a microscope anyway. I bet we could all get kicked out of the "radical community" if someone cared to look close enough. Instead of recognizing the common enemy, you're turning the gun around and fragging your comrades. This is exactly what infiltrators want us to do with our contradictions, it's the same old game but a new generation. (Note: the original author I believe to be legit, just perhaps reacting the way they were intended to)
Be careful with polarization tactics and be intensely conscious of their effects. Like a grenade they can blow up in your hand and leave you in pieces.
Thank you! 15.May.2008 20:16
Kate link
I'm glad you posted this. I was at the event last night. I had to leave a bit early, while Q and A was still going on. But if I'd been able to stay, I would have gone up to you afterwards and given you a big "Thank you!" for asking that question! Your asking that question opened my eyes.
Ramona Africa's answer stunned me. Before the event last night, I did not know a lot of in-depth information about MOVE. The gist of my knowledge was that MOVE is a radical organization who has unjustly suffered severe repression and violence. I admired the organization's tenacity and radicalism, so I attended the event last night with much anticipation and excitement.
I enjoyed hearing her speak, and was feeling pretty inspired; that is, until the Q and A. When she answered your question, frankly I was absolutely stunned. I had never heard of MOVE being homophobic, so it was definitely news to me. I sat there in shock afterwards, wondering how someone who had just delivered an inspiring speech implying that she understands that all struggles against repression and oppression are connected could possibly be homophobic. In her response to your question, she pretty much made everything she'd said in her speech null and void in my mind.
By comparing homosexuality to religious and political affiliations, she implied that it's a choice. In her mind, I guess that someone chooses to be gay just as people choose to be Christian or Republican. That's bullshit. I don't understand how someone who purports to be a leftist radical can believe that being gay is synonymous with religious or political affiliation.
So yeah, thanks for having the courage to ask that question!
Just a few minutes before you asked the question, I had put $5 in the popcorn bucket they were passing around. After she responded to you, my first thought was "Dammit, I want my $5 back!"
Portland
addendum 15.May.2008 21:00
Kate link
I should clarify. 100% of what she'd said was not made null and void in my mind after she answered your question. I still value the things she said about the ills of modern/Western/capitalist society, and how we need to struggle against "the system."
The parts that I now see as null and void are those where she talked about eliminating divisions, about everyone coming together in collective action because all of our fates are inextricably connected-- the parts that led me to believe that she would never ever say something like "I don't believe in homosexuality."
Oh, I also want to mention that last night after I came home, I looked around online and found information about MOVE being against birth control.
...I guess they "just don't believe" in birth control, as they "just don't believe" in homosexuality. Using that type of phrasing sounds eerily similar to the type of vague language used by PR-type people to make bad/wrong things not seem so bad/wrong. Using that type of language allows someone a way to continue to hold bigoted beliefs/do bigoted things without having to take full responsibility for just how bigoted those beliefs/actions are. I think it's a cop-out.
Portland
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