Submitted by Tony Allen (no verificado) on Vie, 11/09/2007 - 12:51pm
Again, it would be nice to be in agreement with Trixie, however in this instance there is no difference to be split. And one can occupy the “middle ground”, but you have to ignore a lot to get there.
What I see in her response is an attempt to intellectualize MOVE’s propaganda and than attempt to fit it into a “progressive” view point, mixed with, and I say this with all due respect, a degree of ignorance on the topic for which she is writing.
The issue of girls in MOVE giving birth at 11-12 years old is by no means an exaggeration. Both daughters of Pam Africa who are in MOVE became pregnant at this age as has most other girls who were born into the sect. If this situation is starting to change in the past four years since I have been gone, I would be glad to hear it, but I have heard or seen no evidence that this is the case.
More to the point, it is the stated policy of the cult that as soon as girls reach puberty that they are to start on their path as breeding machines for the sect, and Ramona Africa has admitted as much. The other ugly reality of this situation is that these girls are functionally illiterate and have no semblance of a real education, and therefore the idea that they could have a choice in the matter is one that is absurd. The environment of MOVE is one of near absolute control. These girls are not getting pregnant on accident or thru sexual experimentation, but through coercion of girls whose mind have been stunted by the total mind-fuck of the cult that they are surrounded by.
With regards to the children on May 13th, it is correct that they did not have a choice nor a chance. MOVE members brought those children into that home and did not allow them the chance to leave. MOVE set up that particular MOVE property to be the scene of their armed showdown with the “system” and stocked it with children just as they stocked it with arms, ammunition, and fortified it.
On that day, when the warrants were served, MOVE refused to let the children leave and it should be noted that all of the children there save for one, were the children of imprisoned MOVE members and truly had nobody to speak for their best interest. It is of course disingenuous to count the children as being suicidal, considering the testimony of the one child who did survive as he re-counted his desire to just be a normal child and how he was prevented from doing so by the adults in his live who abandoned their responsibility to protect him.
The adults on the other hand clearly had no intention of leaving that house as they responded to the police with gunfire. Some adult survivors did attempt to flee, as the flames and smoke overrode the years of programming by John Africa and the very likelihood that at the time the attempts were made to leave the house that John Africa was dead. Police may well have shot at those attempting to flee, however it should be noted that there was testimony that at least one MOVE member left the house while shooting at police.
The authorities were clearly incorrect in their handling of the situation from the outset. Starting with them not treating the children as the hostages that they were and ending with the conscious choice to use fire as a tactical weapon.
However, MOVE members are ultimately responsible for their homicidal and suicidal actions of that day and no amount of official negligence can mitigate that fact.
The idea that the eight surviving members of the “MOVE 9" are in jail for the murder of a single one is an idea conjured by MOVE and repeated again and again, but it is in fact false. MOVE is in prison for third degree murder of one man and the attempted murder of several others. The fact that they have never taken responsibility for their crime and have shown no remorse or signs of a change in outlook makes it easy to understand why there is no outpouring of support for them in the city of Philadelphia.
The issue that journalists are not there to “ferret out” the secrets of their “neighbors is a straw man argument. This considering that my complaint at it’s core, is that when the Philly IMC presents features about MOVE that it ignores the fact that there are many people, aside from myself who find the cult’s abuse of children and vulgar propagandizing odious. That the Philly IMC offers completely one-sided features on MOVE that are nothing more than press-releases for the group is not journalism, it is the abandonment of journalism and in the case of MOVE, tantamount to embracing a violent, child abusing, anti-intellectual, anti-choice, anti-gay, personality cult, that seeks to destroy all it doesn’t understand or anyone who stands against it.
If one wants to support MOVE, than they ought to know enough about the group not to just repeat their fairy tales. Or resort to citing statistics that do nothing but gloss over the reality of the children of MOVE.
you should know
Submitted by Tony Allen (no verificado) on Vie, 11/09/2007 - 12:51pmAgain, it would be nice to be in agreement with Trixie, however in this instance there is no difference to be split. And one can occupy the “middle ground”, but you have to ignore a lot to get there.
What I see in her response is an attempt to intellectualize MOVE’s propaganda and than attempt to fit it into a “progressive” view point, mixed with, and I say this with all due respect, a degree of ignorance on the topic for which she is writing.
The issue of girls in MOVE giving birth at 11-12 years old is by no means an exaggeration. Both daughters of Pam Africa who are in MOVE became pregnant at this age as has most other girls who were born into the sect. If this situation is starting to change in the past four years since I have been gone, I would be glad to hear it, but I have heard or seen no evidence that this is the case.
More to the point, it is the stated policy of the cult that as soon as girls reach puberty that they are to start on their path as breeding machines for the sect, and Ramona Africa has admitted as much. The other ugly reality of this situation is that these girls are functionally illiterate and have no semblance of a real education, and therefore the idea that they could have a choice in the matter is one that is absurd. The environment of MOVE is one of near absolute control. These girls are not getting pregnant on accident or thru sexual experimentation, but through coercion of girls whose mind have been stunted by the total mind-fuck of the cult that they are surrounded by.
With regards to the children on May 13th, it is correct that they did not have a choice nor a chance. MOVE members brought those children into that home and did not allow them the chance to leave. MOVE set up that particular MOVE property to be the scene of their armed showdown with the “system” and stocked it with children just as they stocked it with arms, ammunition, and fortified it.
On that day, when the warrants were served, MOVE refused to let the children leave and it should be noted that all of the children there save for one, were the children of imprisoned MOVE members and truly had nobody to speak for their best interest. It is of course disingenuous to count the children as being suicidal, considering the testimony of the one child who did survive as he re-counted his desire to just be a normal child and how he was prevented from doing so by the adults in his live who abandoned their responsibility to protect him.
The adults on the other hand clearly had no intention of leaving that house as they responded to the police with gunfire. Some adult survivors did attempt to flee, as the flames and smoke overrode the years of programming by John Africa and the very likelihood that at the time the attempts were made to leave the house that John Africa was dead. Police may well have shot at those attempting to flee, however it should be noted that there was testimony that at least one MOVE member left the house while shooting at police.
The authorities were clearly incorrect in their handling of the situation from the outset. Starting with them not treating the children as the hostages that they were and ending with the conscious choice to use fire as a tactical weapon.
However, MOVE members are ultimately responsible for their homicidal and suicidal actions of that day and no amount of official negligence can mitigate that fact.
The idea that the eight surviving members of the “MOVE 9" are in jail for the murder of a single one is an idea conjured by MOVE and repeated again and again, but it is in fact false. MOVE is in prison for third degree murder of one man and the attempted murder of several others. The fact that they have never taken responsibility for their crime and have shown no remorse or signs of a change in outlook makes it easy to understand why there is no outpouring of support for them in the city of Philadelphia.
The issue that journalists are not there to “ferret out” the secrets of their “neighbors is a straw man argument. This considering that my complaint at it’s core, is that when the Philly IMC presents features about MOVE that it ignores the fact that there are many people, aside from myself who find the cult’s abuse of children and vulgar propagandizing odious. That the Philly IMC offers completely one-sided features on MOVE that are nothing more than press-releases for the group is not journalism, it is the abandonment of journalism and in the case of MOVE, tantamount to embracing a violent, child abusing, anti-intellectual, anti-choice, anti-gay, personality cult, that seeks to destroy all it doesn’t understand or anyone who stands against it.
If one wants to support MOVE, than they ought to know enough about the group not to just repeat their fairy tales. Or resort to citing statistics that do nothing but gloss over the reality of the children of MOVE.